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PostPosted: Nov 30, 2011 10:08 AM 
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I was reading the Metropolis Comics newsletter and they were talking about the House of Secrets #92 CGC 9.8 that is in the current auction. Here is the quote that caught my attention...

" "The other 9.8 copy has never come to market, so this is the only chance buyers may have to snag the best copy of what may be the most important of all Bronze Age books!" boasted Reynolds. "

I'll grant that it is an important book from the Bronze Age but I really don't think that it is the most important. It isn't like the Swamp Thing is an A-Lister (in my opinion). I know that auctioneers have to hype their wares to the best of their ability but would you really call it the "most important of all Bronze Age books"?


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PostPosted: Nov 30, 2011 11:27 AM 
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Certainly not. I wonder how one would even justify that position?

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PostPosted: Nov 30, 2011 2:04 PM 
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That was my thinking. There's hype and then there's something else. I understand wanting to hype the book, but come on!? Really? I'm restraining from listing a "most important" until I see what others say but I'm sure there are easily four or five books that would be better suited for the title. Is it a popular book? No doubt! But, popularity alone won't make it the most important.


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PostPosted: Nov 30, 2011 4:07 PM 
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The most important Bronze Age book -- I'd say either Hulk 181 or Giant-Size X-Men #1. I could see a case for either one -- Wolverine is one of Marvel's most popular characters, but GS X-Men #1 begin the X-Men relaunch that put Marvel on top in the 1980s, and made Wolvie into the icon he is.

Offhand, I can't think of any DC key books that come remotely close in importance to those two -- certainly Swamp Thing (the character or the title) never had the kind of ripple effect on the industry that the X-Men did.


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PostPosted: Nov 30, 2011 4:42 PM 
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Point Five wrote:
The most important Bronze Age book -- I'd say either Hulk 181 or Giant-Size X-Men #1. I could see a case for either one -- Wolverine is one of Marvel's most popular characters, but GS X-Men #1 begin the X-Men relaunch that put Marvel on top in the 1980s, and made Wolvie into the icon he is.

Offhand, I can't think of any DC key books that come remotely close in importance to those two -- certainly Swamp Thing (the character or the title) never had the kind of ripple effect on the industry that the X-Men did.


I agree. I'm sure some would argue in favor of some Batman issues or Green Lantern 76, but those fall into the same category as HOS 92, IMO. They are highly collectible and in great demand for artistic reasons, but it would be tough to make a solid case they have nearly the long-term impact of Wolverine/X-Men on the whole industry.

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PostPosted: Nov 30, 2011 4:48 PM 
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With GS X-Men #1 you also get the first appearance of Storm, Colossus, and Nightcrawler not to mention the second appearance of Wolverine in a title. I'd venture to guess that Storm is more important as a character than Swamp Thing.


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PostPosted: Nov 30, 2011 4:52 PM 
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Another book I was considering as more important was Conan the Barbarian #1. Marvel landing the licensing for Conan was a really big deal back when it happened.


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PostPosted: Nov 30, 2011 7:59 PM 
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I think that we can argue about which is the first BA comic, but I don't see that there is any arguement that Hulk 181/GS X-Men 1 aren't the most important.


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PostPosted: Nov 30, 2011 8:23 PM 
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I vote for Hulk 181! Then again I like Star Wars #1 (Varients and All) and Cerebus #1. How about AMS 129


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PostPosted: Dec 01, 2011 10:42 AM 
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So, what order of importance would you put the books that have been mentioned in? I guess mine would be...

1. Giant-Size X-Men #1 (The book that started the X-Men revival)
2. Incredible Hulk #181 (Wolverine's first appearance)
3. Conan the Barbarian #1 (Started the Sword & Sorcery revival)
4. Cerebus #1 (Self-publishing trailblazer)
5. Amazing Spider-Man #1 (Punisher's first appearance)
6. House of Secrets #92 (Just missed the Top 5 for 'ol Swamp Thing)
7. Green Lantern #76 (Speedy does speedy)
8. Star Wars #1 (First appearance in ANY form for Luke and the gang!)

I think #1 and 2 are probably more like #1 and 1a but I gave a slight nod to GSXM because it really did help propel Marvel to the top of the industry. The next three were pretty close in my mind as well. I seriously considered switching Conan and Cerebus (and still might :winkgrin:). I give the drug issue a nod over Star Wars because if it wasn't for the price variants I don't think it'd even be in the discussion.


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PostPosted: Dec 01, 2011 3:02 PM 
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macathro wrote:
So, what order of importance would you put the books that have been mentioned in? I guess mine would be...

1. Giant-Size X-Men #1 (The book that started the X-Men revival)
2. Incredible Hulk #181 (Wolverine's first appearance)
3. Conan the Barbarian #1 (Started the Sword & Sorcery revival)
4. Cerebus #1 (Self-publishing trailblazer)
5. Amazing Spider-Man #129 (Punisher's first appearance)
6. House of Secrets #92 (Just missed the Top 5 for 'ol Swamp Thing)
7. Green Lantern #76 (Speedy does speedy)
8. Star Wars #1 (First appearance in ANY form for Luke and the gang!)

I think #1 and 2 are probably more like #1 and 1a but I gave a slight nod to GSXM because it really did help propel Marvel to the top of the industry. The next three were pretty close in my mind as well. I seriously considered switching Conan and Cerebus (and still might :winkgrin:). I give the drug issue a nod over Star Wars because if it wasn't for the price variants I don't think it'd even be in the discussion.


Reads well to me. I would switch Cerebus with Conan.


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PostPosted: Dec 01, 2011 3:52 PM 
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PaulGC wrote:
Reads well to me. I would switch Cerebus with Conan.


I really think that I'd switch them as well. I guess my personal bias came into play. I was never a big Cerebus fan but loved the Conan books. I think the pioneering effort for self-publishing that Cerebus helped start would outweigh Conan in the end.


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PostPosted: Dec 01, 2011 5:28 PM 
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1. Giant-Size X-Men #1
2. Incredible Hulk #181
3. Amazing Spider-Man #121/2
4. Green Lantern #76
5. Cerebus #1

For me, first appearances aren't really big comic book events. I have put Hulk 181 and GS X-Men 1 first and second not because they are first appearances, but because of the long-term effect they had on the industry. You could say that they saved the super-hero genre, although this is probabaly an over statement.

I have put ASM 121 and 122 right behind. With the death of a beloved character and a major villain this story arc set the stage for a maturation of comic book writing. Some might argue that moving away from writing for kids will eventually lead to the death of comics, but these two issues had a big effect.

I have put Green Lantern 76 as #4 because of the socially responsible angle this run brought to comics and Cerebus #5 because of the effect it had on self-publishing.

To me these are the five biggest contributions of the BA to the long-term developement of comics.

Mike


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PostPosted: Dec 01, 2011 6:44 PM 
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Monkeyman wrote:
1. Giant-Size X-Men #1
2. Incredible Hulk #181
3. Amazing Spider-Man #121/2
4. Green Lantern #76
5. Cerebus #1

For me, first appearances aren't really big comic book events. I have put Hulk 181 and GS X-Men 1 first and second not because they are first appearances, but because of the long-term effect they had on the industry. You could say that they saved the super-hero genre, although this is probabaly an over statement.

I have put ASM 121 and 122 right behind. With the death of a beloved character and a major villain this story arc set the stage for a maturation of comic book writing. Some might argue that moving away from writing for kids will eventually lead to the death of comics, but these two issues had a big effect.

I have put Green Lantern 76 as #4 because of the socially responsible angle this run brought to comics and Cerebus #5 because of the effect it had on self-publishing.

To me these are the five biggest contributions of the BA to the long-term developement of comics.Mike


Very nice! :righton: When Gwen Stacy died, that really did change how stories would be told. I think my revised list would have Cerebus at #3, ASM 121 & 122 at #4 and Conan at #5.

As for the social responsibility angle, when did the ASM drug issues come out compared to GL #76?


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PostPosted: Dec 01, 2011 6:49 PM 
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It looks like GL #76 came out about a year before the ASM issues. I think the success of these issues helped with the relaxation of the CCA guidelines didn't they? If so, I'd say they belong somewhere on the list.


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PostPosted: Dec 01, 2011 10:56 PM 
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The ASM drug issues were printed without CCA approval. They are neat books, but I'm not sure they had any lasting impact on the Bronze Age as a whole.

Likewise, as much as I love GL #76 (or did you mean #86, one of the two drug issues?), my impression is that that GL run didn't really launch any wave of social responsibility in comics, especially since the run was cancelled fairly quickly.

Good call on ASM #121; that was quite a shocker (a "turning point" indeed) and a story that has resonance to this day.


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PostPosted: Dec 02, 2011 7:03 AM 
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Oops. I got my GL's mixed up. #76 is the first Neal Adams. #85 & #86 were the drug issues. Thanks for the correction! :righton:

The one thing about the drug issues and the importance, is that it was these books that helped relax the CCA guidelines which allowed for the revival of the monster books in the 70's. I read about how the government approached Marvel about doing the books and they got blocked by the CCA. Stan made the decision to release without approval and the sales were unaffected (or even a little better). The code was changed shortly thereafter to allow monsters, corrupt politicians, etc. Drugs were never banned by name but fell under the category of "contrary to the spirit of the code" or some such.


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PostPosted: Dec 02, 2011 10:53 AM 
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Point Five wrote:
Good call on ASM #121; that was quite a shocker (a "turning point" indeed) and a story that has resonance to this day.


It's historic in that Gwen was the only comic book character to die and stay dead -- even to this day!

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PostPosted: Dec 02, 2011 11:58 AM 
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Mr. Zipper wrote:
Point Five wrote:
Good call on ASM #121; that was quite a shocker (a "turning point" indeed) and a story that has resonance to this day.


It's historic in that Gwen was the only comic book character to die and stay dead -- even to this day!


What about Bucky (never mind), Uncle Ben (errrr), Barry Allen Flash (ooops), Hal Jordan Green Lantern (uh-uh), Jason Todd (darnnit!) or Phoenix, Jean Grey, Jean Grey (again), Jean Grey (huh?), or Jean Grey!?

Well, at least the thief that killed Uncle Ben is still dead.


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PostPosted: Dec 04, 2011 8:32 PM 
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macathro wrote:
Mr. Zipper wrote:
Point Five wrote:
Good call on ASM #121; that was quite a shocker (a "turning point" indeed) and a story that has resonance to this day.


It's historic in that Gwen was the only comic book character to die and stay dead -- even to this day!


What about Bucky (never mind), Uncle Ben (errrr), Barry Allen Flash (ooops), Hal Jordan Green Lantern (uh-uh), Jason Todd (darnnit!) or Phoenix, Jean Grey, Jean Grey (again), Jean Grey (huh?), or Jean Grey!?

Well, at least the thief that killed Uncle Ben is still dead.


I thought Sandman killed Uncle Ben. :stircrazy:


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PostPosted: Dec 05, 2011 8:54 AM 
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Monkeyman wrote:
macathro wrote:
Mr. Zipper wrote:
Point Five wrote:
Good call on ASM #121; that was quite a shocker (a "turning point" indeed) and a story that has resonance to this day.


It's historic in that Gwen was the only comic book character to die and stay dead -- even to this day!


What about Bucky (never mind), Uncle Ben (errrr), Barry Allen Flash (ooops), Hal Jordan Green Lantern (uh-uh), Jason Todd (darnnit!) or Phoenix, Jean Grey, Jean Grey (again), Jean Grey (huh?), or Jean Grey!?

Well, at least the thief that killed Uncle Ben is still dead.


I thought Sandman killed Uncle Ben. :stircrazy:

Touché. :lol:


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PostPosted: Feb 24, 2012 2:43 PM 
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Hello everyone. I'm new. My name is Barry, and I'm a huge Wolverine fan. That's way my user name is an amalgamation of the name Logan and Wolverine = Logerine.

Anyway, I like this this list
1. Giant-Size X-Men #1 (The book that started the X-Men revival)
2. Incredible Hulk #181 (Wolverine's first appearance)
3. Conan the Barbarian #1 (Started the Sword & Sorcery revival)
4. Cerebus #1 (Self-publishing trailblazer)
5. Amazing Spider-Man #129 (Punisher's first appearance)
6. House of Secrets #92 (Just missed the Top 5 for 'ol Swamp Thing)
7. Green Lantern #76 (Speedy does speedy)
8. Star Wars #1 (First appearance in ANY form for Luke and the gang!)

But I would flip-flop #1 and #2 because without Wolverine, the New X-Men wouldn't have taken off like they did (in my humble opinion). I believe Hulk 181 is the most important Bronze Age comic.

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PostPosted: Feb 24, 2012 11:00 PM 
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I'm wondering if ASM 129 is more important for younger readers who are familiar with the Punisher because of more recent popularity. At the same time they might not even know about ASM 121 & 122 as they were published years before younger readers' births. :dunno:


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PostPosted: Feb 24, 2012 11:02 PM 
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I pulled this list of major Bronze Age events from Wikipedia.

April 1970: DC Comics adds Green Arrow to Green Lantern book for stories written by Denny O'Neil and penciled by Neal Adams featuring "relevance." Series, story, writer, penciller and inker all win first Shazam Awards in their respective categories the following year.

October 1970: Marvel Comics begins publishing Conan The Barbarian.

October 1970: DC Comics begins publishing Jack Kirby's Fourth World titles beginning with Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen and continuing with New Gods, The Forever People and Mister Miracle.

1971: The Falcon shares co-feature status in the renamed Captain America and The Falcon.

1971: The Comics Code is revised.

January 1971: Clark Kent becomes a newscaster at WGBS-TV.

July 1971: DC Comics introduces the character of Swamp Thing in its House of Secrets title.

April 1972: Marvel begins publishing The Tomb of Dracula.

June 1972: Luke Cage becomes the first African American superhero to receive his own series in Hero for Hire #1.

June 1973: The death of Gwen Stacy in Amazing Spider-Man #121.

December 1973: The absurdist Howard the Duck makes his first appearance in comics and would be one of the most popular non-superheroes ever. He would get his own series in 1976 and he would graduate to his own daily newspaper strip and a 1986 film.

November 1974: First appearance of Wolverine in Incredible Hulk #181.

1975: Giant-Size X-Men #1 by Len Wein and Dave Cockrum introduces the "all-new, all-different X-Men."

July 1977: At the request of Roy Thomas, Marvel releases Star Wars, based on the hit movie, and it quickly becomes one of the best-selling books of the era.

December 1977: Dave Sim launches Cerebus independent of the major publishers, the longest running limited series (300 issues) in comics as well as the longest run by one artist on a comic book series.

Spring 1978: First appearance of Elfquest by Wendy and Richard Pini is published in Fantasy Quarterlty

1978: DC cancels over half of its titles in the so-called DC Implosion.

July 1979: DC publishes The World of Krypton, the first comic book mini-series, which gave publishers a new flexibility with titles.

November 1980: First issue of DC Comics' The New Teen Titans whose success at revitalizing a previously underperforming property would lead to the idea of revamping the entire DC Universe.

June 1982: Marvel publishes Contest of Champions, its first limited series. This title features most of the company's major characters together, providing a template for later limited-series storylines at Marvel and DC.

October 1982: Comico begins publishing a comic called Comico Primer that would later be the starting point for several influential artists and writers such as Sam Kieth and Matt Wagner.

May 1984: Marvel begins releasing the first "big event" storyline, Secret Wars, which would, along with Crisis on Infinite Earths, popularize big events, and make them a staple in the industry.

May 1984: Mirage Studios begins publishing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles by Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird.

April 1985: DC begins publishing Crisis on Infinite Earths, which would drastically restructure the DC universe, and popularize the epic crossover in the comics industry along with Secret Wars. In the aftermath of this Crisis, DC cancels and relaunches the Flash, Superman, and Wonder Woman.

August 1985: Eclipse Comics publishes Miracleman, written by Alan Moore, developing the later trends of bringing superhero fiction into the real world, and showing the effects of immensely powerful characters on global politics (both potentially apocalyptic and utopian).

1986: DC publishes Frank Miller's Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, setting a new grim tone for Batman.

September 1986: Curt Swan, primary Superman artist during the Silver and Bronze Age, is retired from his monthly art duties on all Superman books after the last Pre-Crisis Superman story, called Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, on which he worked together with Alan Moore, is published.

September 1986-October 1987: DC Comics publishes the Watchmen limited series, seen by many as a model for a new age of comics.


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PostPosted: Feb 24, 2012 11:04 PM 
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June 1972: Luke Cage becomes the first African American superhero to receive his own series in Hero for Hire #1.

We didn't think of this one, but I'd say it is a major event.

Mike M


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PostPosted: Feb 25, 2012 8:49 PM 
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That made some interesting Wiki reading. Thanks for looking it up and posting, Monkeyman. And yeah, Hero for Hire #1 is a nice one too.

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PostPosted: Feb 26, 2012 7:12 PM 
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I like Luke cage. Angry man with bad attitude.


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PostPosted: Aug 02, 2013 11:31 PM 
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Cerebus #1.


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PostPosted: Aug 05, 2013 5:31 PM 
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This is a tough question with all the great anti-heroes, super-natural beings, villains, real life themes, Sci-fi, and changes to what was the norm in the heroes and teams we knew. It is like asking if an eye pleasing book is a 9.8, 9.9, or 10. Everyone will say something else from his or her point of view. Some really good books are not top key books, A-list characters, or big money books.

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PostPosted: Aug 05, 2013 8:01 PM 
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I have some ... divergent opinions... re the books that most influenced the Bronze Age...

1. Creepy #1... reintroduced horror into the newsstand comic...
2. Zap Comix #1... popularized the self-published, uncensored comic, which spawned an entire decade of constant creativity and gave the voice of the counterculture a visual and visceral forum...
3. Conan the Barbarian #1... introduced the anti-hero into the Marvel Universe, and brought the sword and sorcery fantasy to a whole new generation of readers...

to me, those three comics are the basis for any discussion of the comics and the consciousness of the Bronze Age... the flavour and the concepts behind these three books formed the bedrock that all the books in the above lists built from. I have a list of the best books of the bronze age, and a list of the best superhero books of the bronze age... the two are virtually mutually exclusive.

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