Problems with Signature Series...

Red Hook · **Posted:** Oct 16, 2008 7:07 PM

.... a long but interesting tale.

http://c0micb00ks.com/bret-leutzinger

Mr. Zipper · **Joined:** Apr 25, 2007 2:21 AM **Posts:** 6017

So was there anything new in the thread CGC wiped out, or just a rehash of the blog post?

Red Hook · **Posted:** Oct 16, 2008 7:34 PM

I didn't get to read the whole thing...so I can't really speak on that.

My sense at the moment is to just listen as the story unfolds and reserve judgment. I think there was some doubt cast upon the infallibility of the CGC Sig Witness program or some such. Maybe others who remember more of the thread will add to this.

Red

Mr. Zipper · **Joined:** Apr 25, 2007 2:21 AM **Posts:** 6017

If it was the matter of a crooked "official witness" I can see why CGC would want to sweep this one right under the carpet.

To think there may be forges floating around in CGC SS slabs would be a PR nightmare for them.

Red Hook · **Posted:** Oct 16, 2008 7:59 PM

From Paul Litch:

Quote:

Every single Signature Series book is 100% Authentic. All of our witnesses follow strict rules and guidelines set forth in their contract. CGC has many checks and balances in place for the Signature Series and if there is ever a book in question, we don't give it a Signature Series label. Period.

Well, I guess that settles that. End of story, right?

How come every time someone at CGC comes on with a statement like that, you know there is a problem brewing somewhere?

Mr. Zipper · **Joined:** Apr 25, 2007 2:21 AM **Posts:** 6017

Brad Hamann wrote:

From Paul Litch:

Quote:

Every single Signature Series book is 100% Authentic. All of our witnesses follow strict rules and guidelines set forth in their contract. CGC has many checks and balances in place for the Signature Series and if there is ever a book in question, we don't give it a Signature Series label. Period.

Well, I guess that settles that. End of story, right?

How come every time someone at CGC comes on with a statement like that, you know there is a problem brewing somewhere?

Written like a telegram. :hilarious:

I'd love to know what the checks and balances are and how they know a witness isn't salting the mine with some fakes. Other than the integrity of the witness, what could they have?

Hopefully it is not true. I'd hate to see collectors who really dig SS get their bubbles burst.

But the official statement doesn't give one much confidence.

Red Hook · **Posted:** Oct 16, 2008 8:08 PM

But that's standard operating procedure. I've always said the should spend the money to get a real PR person who knows how to deal with problems like this. When one of the staff does it, it always looks like Angry Amateur Hour.

Sal · **Joined:** Sep 30, 2008 11:54 AM **Posts:** 39

Call me an apologist, but the guy making the accusations has about as much credibility in my mind as any other kook with a vendetta.

I'm waiting for anyone to corroborate the accuser's story

Red Hook · **Posted:** Oct 16, 2008 8:27 PM

We heard the same line and tone when the Ewert thing first broke. Excuse me just a little if I'm a bit skeptical.

I don't consider you an apologist and you have every right to your opinion. But CGC always does a lousy job of proving that everything is okay. They're good at telling you everything is okay, they just don't bother to go the extra mile and actually prove it.

And when you're in the business of building confidence in your product and trust in your system, it would seem that would be issue #1. I wouldn't rely on a curtly worded statement like the one Litch issued to assure the customer base.

Mr. Zipper · **Joined:** Apr 25, 2007 2:21 AM **Posts:** 6017

Sal wrote:

Call me an apologist, but the guy making the accusations has about as much credibility in my mind as any other kook with a vendetta.

I'm waiting for anyone to corroborate the accuser's story

That's fair and wise.

Like I said, hopefully it is not true.

But given CGC's tight lipped, deny and circle the wagon behavior whenever there is an issue, their PR doesn't have much credibility -- even when there is NOT an issue.

Red Hook · **Posted:** Oct 16, 2008 8:28 PM

Huh, Steve, we were writing basically identical posts at the same time.

Mr. Zipper · **Joined:** Apr 25, 2007 2:21 AM **Posts:** 6017

Brad Hamann wrote:

Huh, Steve, we were writing basically identical posts at the same time.

But yours is better.

:biggrin:

Red Hook · **Posted:** Oct 16, 2008 8:31 PM

No, I just compulsively over-write.

snitzer · **Posted:** Oct 16, 2008 8:44 PM

I tracked this thread, which yes, was totally dropped from the boards, and it was kicked off by a new forum member claiming to be Bret Leutzinger. Another member, FatComicMafia (told me his name was Ed?), posted the original link, which I'll try and get from him again that called out Bret. The link Brad re-posted for us, quickly followed and it was a downward spiral from there. lol

Jeff Rader · **Posted:** Oct 16, 2008 8:54 PM

snitzer wrote:

I tracked this thread, which yes, was totally dropped from the boards, and it was kicked off by a new forum member claiming to be Bret Leutzinger. Another member, FatComicMafia (told me his name was Ed?), posted the original link, which I'll try and get from him again that called out Bret. The link Brad re-posted for us, quickly followed and it was a downward spiral from there. lol

Here's the other link that was on the disappearing thread:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/3 ... 360149.htm

Red Hook · **Posted:** Oct 16, 2008 9:01 PM

Yeah, it's quite possible the whole thing is bogus. My main point is that CGC invariably takes a questionable situation and makes it look worse by their abrupt and clumsy handling of these things.

nik · **Joined:** Oct 16, 2008 8:29 AM **Posts:** 9

Wazzup

I have the deleted post if you guys want to read it :evillaugh:

Sal · **Joined:** Sep 30, 2008 11:54 AM **Posts:** 39

Brad Hamann wrote:

We heard the same line and tone when the Ewert thing first broke. Excuse me just a little if I'm a bit skeptical.

I don't consider you an apologist and you have every right to your opinion. But CGC always does a lousy job of proving that everything is okay. They're good at telling you everything is okay, they just don't bother to go the extra mile and actually prove it.

And when you're in the business of building confidence in your product and trust in your system, it would seem that would be issue #1. I wouldn't rely on a curtly worded statement like the one Litch issued to assure the customer base.

You and I are completely on the same page regarding CGC's terrible record of being able to explain situations like this.

I'm of the opinion, again, that CGC's position within the CS hinders their ability. Remember that they are not - NOT - a stand-alone company, with the type of flexibility a stand-alone company has with respect to PR and the like

Red Hook · **Posted:** Oct 17, 2008 7:00 AM

Interesting statement by Paul Litch:

Quote:

As far as the CGC Signature Series goes, Bret has done nothing that goes against his witness agreement. However, Bret needs to take some serious steps towards bettering his reputation and cleaning up his end of this mess. He knows that I am watching him closely.

The CGC brand and the CGC Signature Series is our top priority. No witness is above it all and we are not afraid to remove a witness if necessary. I have made that clear to Bret and to all CGC witnesses. I know you are not the enemy, Sean. I know you are a strong supporter of the CGC SS, that is why I responded to you. Rest assured that we watch everything that goes on with the Signature Series very closely and we take it's reputation extremely seriously.

-Paul"

Now, doesn't that sound exactly like Borock talking about Ewert before the true scope of the trimming problem exploded?

mica · **Posted:** Oct 17, 2008 1:40 PM

nik wrote:

Wazzup

I have the deleted post if you guys want to read it :evillaugh:

But did you get my Fantastic Reply to it? :biggrin:

Brian Rempel · **Posted:** Oct 17, 2008 2:02 PM

nik wrote:

Wazzup

I have the deleted post if you guys want to read it :evillaugh:

If you e-mail it to me I'll host it and post the link here.

brrempel@gmail.com

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