I like the main gist of this article:



Unfortunately, most of the "training" being done today is on the level of the "home experiment". Here's a link to the whole article ...

http://cool.conservation-us.org/byorg/abbey/an/an07/an07-2a/an07-a202.html

Really? With tuition costs these days who can afford not "experimenting" on worthless chepazz copies at home?

The article is from 1983.

One would have to presume the field is even more complicated today with the advance of technology and procedures.

That said, I'm not so sure pressing bends out of newsprint funnybooks rises to the level of knowledge required to preserve/restore historical documents that may be hundreds of years old.

We are talking about mid to high end items. Not your cheap readers. The problem is, there is no standardization, no monitoring system in place and the damage to increasingly rare three, four, five and six figure items is accelerating.

It is the Wild West out there. It's a bunch of amateur mad scientists trying to figure out how to make a buck. There's little interest in the preservation arts. Again, it comes down to a quick profit and once it's in the slab with a bright shiny number, it's safe from further investigation.

I stood in Susan Cicconi's studio and saw a professional conservator at work. She may be the only active one left. I'm not talking about taking a few cover indents out with a quickie press. Any idiot can do that, as has been proven many times over the past couple of years.

Didn't she just announce within the last few months she would be pressing books again? The lure of money is hard to ignore and unfortunately for some (not saying she is) it's only about the money. As far as conservation goes, from what I've seen there's several folks that are doing some really nice work that are open about what they're doing. Besides, it's art combined with science - so why would you want standards and monitoring?

Hm While I in no way disagree with the assessment that Susan does top-tier work, I do believe there's at least one other individual (and his associates) that does equally solid work. And I'd have to agree with Steve as the first thing that really jumped out to me here was the date of the article. With the advances in technology, you really have to wonder if the pros aren't doing it better by leaps and strides compared to this nearly-30 year old snapshot.

But Susan doesn't shill her Ebay auctions ... as far as I know.

For that reason alone, I would send all my work to her as opposed to ... the "other" party and his associates. I mean, look towards the top of your browser window right now.

See the word ... "Ethics"?

I do think Susan felt the pressure to do straight pressing jobs ... but from what I read on her site ... she still keeps it as straightforward as possible.

Besides, she's committed enough to become a CBCA member affiliate. That's reason number 2 to throw all my business to her. So when I start pressing all those Greenies ... she'll be the one that does it!

So how did this thread evolve to ethics?

That may be; however, I know Kenny (Ze-Man on the CGC Boards) works with Matt, and he has done some amazing, progressive work on some of the most expensive & rare books out there. And honestly? He's an absolute "stand up" person.

Having met Susan and seen the results of her work, I agree on both accounts (as I said before)--another stand up person who does stellar work. I guess I take umbrage with the notion she is the only one left when the reality is that there are others present. And even if you dislike the way Matt seems to do business on e-Bay, it still does not change the fact that he is one of the prime movers in the comics restoration & conservation field because of the things he is doing to advance the field.

I think it's worthwhile and interesting to see where the field was in the past; however, I'm even more interested to see where it is now and will be in the future.

Since you brought him up (I didn't), what work has Kenny done for you? Can you show us and describe what he did?

See, when you're talking about high end restoration ... and big bucks ... I'd be hesitant to put my books into the hands of someone who basically has about three years in the biz and learned at home. I'd rather go with Susan who has about a quarter century in the biz, and has no ethical issues. Just because Matt is a "prime mover" in the biz, doesn't seem like a reason to throw him my business, or even less so to his far less experienced associates around the country.

If you're working for someone who shills ebay auctions then in my book, you get to bask in the reflected ignominy.

Easy answer ... Susan in a heartbeat.

I'll never understand why simple direct questions and requests for proof get everyone riled up in this hobby. It's a business. Claims that someone is a stand-up guy are the worst arguments possible to promote someone's business. That's naive at best.

Anyway, Red Hook's attempt to get some juice into these boards and increase traffic here continues!

You're more than welcome to go look at the work he did on one of my books (Action 53/56--I forget the #) in my GA collection thread. But bear in mind a few points:

1. I merely asked Kenny to reattach the cover--he went the extra mile and did the entire leaf casting gratis despite his reiterations that it wasn't anywhere what he normally does. Since I was looking to reattach it for reading purposes, the work he did went above and beyond. You'll find before and after shots as well as a description of the process involved for what really amounts to nowhere near the true level of his work.

2. In order for me to show you the work he has done on high dollar books that I own would require me to own high dollar books and the money to have resto work done on them. Unfortunately, as you know all too well, I'm a teacher and therefore don't have a lot of disposable income. I would direct you to the CGC Restoration section for at least some of the work he's done. You should still be able to use the search function and see for yourself some of the higher end items he's worked on.

And regarding Ken's ethics, I don't mean to be rude, but calling him into question seems a little... hypocritical considering the facts that he's done nothing to warrant that, and some questionable behavior on your part some time ago on the boards that led to your banning. Perhaps it's best just to keep the name calling elsewhere

In any event, I'll be interested in something more updated on the field if you have it. Otherwise, I'm all set with the discussion here.

You (Brad) should try reading the top of the browser yourself because it says Fellowship and Education as well. The boards here have been slow but you're promoting neither by trying to "inject juice" or what I call stirring the pot. You're artwork was actually interesting as opposed to this thread.

Feel free to clarify my questionable behavior, sir. Seriously. Be my guest. Odds are you have few facts.

And my banning was all about me calling CGC's business model into question over the course of years. They were looking for an excuse. But this is not the time or place, but I'll answer any questions you have if you insist.

I didn't say anything about KS personally ... my point was thus: to put anyone in this hobby on a pedestal is absurd. Many of the major crooks in the hobby started out as "stand up" guys. Again, that means zilch.

I think you need all three Fellowship, Education and Ethics. I'm sure there is plenty of fellowship around, but there once you get past the reader copy level, there are plenty of sharks too. You need a balance, otherwise you will be fleeced. If you don't want to explore those issue, that's fine. Just let me be my own cynical self.

Let me put it this way... I've been collecting comics since 1966 ... and I am cynical. I'm honestly not trying to ruin your fun. When I came back to collecting about 8 years ago, I joined the CGC boards. Did a lot of detective work, and outed quite a number of scammers. This is an unmonitored hobby. I'm constantly amused by the contradictions. A Doug Schmell is killed over and over (mostly by the other lawyers on the boards) because of something he did in his previous career, and for which he paid his debt for. And yet someone else, who is a little bit better at glad-handing, gets a pass for dishonest behavior being practiced right now.

I do think most collectors come here for just the fun of the hobby. Unfortunately, CGC and the high enders ruined that. MacMan ... there is much more backstory to things we've discussed here, but I'm not going there outside of a pm. Feel free to pm me any question you have. I understand it's unpleasant to think that someone who is a "bud" might really be just trying to prep you for the $$$. But unfortunately, a large segment of this hobby is all about the $$$.

I've said many times that the average collector, driven by emotion and nostalgia for the books, doesn't stand a chance against someone who forgot a long time ago the magic of the books and sees them merely as a commodity ... to squash, and to use as a way to cozy up to someone.

I was banned (actually never officially) for trying to give a schemer a taste of his own medicine. Remember Goonchild? Remember his shilling, his refusal to withdraw a trimmed book from an eBay auction that had mistakenly received a blue label? Remember his multiple IDs on the CGC boards. I think you all got taken in by both his male and female ids. He's not a well person. And then he started to target me. So I fought back because the mods were not doing their job. And that was that.

If I listed all the battles I've fought against disinformation and the phoniness in the hobby, I'd bore you all and myself. But I stand by my record, which imho compares favorably with several of the big names listed on our homepage. But I won't go there either.

I don't like whats going on in the hobby. I'm going to keep pointing things out. THAT is the education side. If I didn't focus on that, a ringer would have walked off with the first prize cash in your art competition. I saw what was going on immediately. Not saying you have to focus on the same thing ... just don't give me grief when I do it. I'm a hardliner on this stuff, I admit it ... I enjoy the hobby as much as anyone ... but I do remember a different time. And that's why I do what I do.

BTW ... I trust the folks on this board 100%, even if we disagree on various topics. I'd just like to see more action here, and pull more focus over here.

For the record, MacMan, unless you are logged in, you cannot use the search function on the CGC boards.

At least you're "here" and trying.

How much formal, full-time educational training does Susan Cicconi have? The answer will probably surprise you - she is largely self-taught. She is more artist than paper scientist, as she will readily admit. The artistic aspect of her restoration is very good, but she still uses manual piece fill for large areas of loss and her knowledge of the science of paper conservation (i.e., the chemistry) is fairly basic.

The one person who restores comics who has a formal educational background in paper conservation (Tracy Heft) is nowhere near the best in the business right now, not in terms of structural repair, restoring lost artwork, or removal of stains. I have heard several people say that he claims to have been leaf casting comic books for 20 years, but my recollection of when I sent him a copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 to restore in 2004, is that he was just starting to learn the process and had not dialed it in to the point where he was comfortable trying it on my book yet. He spent a year telling me that he was experimenting and that his results were getting better and that he could eventually work miracles with my book. After a year of waiting, I asked for the book back. He returned it untouched. OK, so leaf casting was a new technique then. Ask any of his customers now if his work is as good as Kenny Sanderson's. Or ask Tracy himself and see what he says. If he says it is, he's BS'ing you.

When Tracy pressed several of my books at around that same time, he split the spine on one of them and warped several others. I had to fix them myself with a dry mount press that I purchased soon thereafter. He paid me for the split spine book, but come on. That never should have happened in the first place if he had pressed it properly. So much for an extensive educational background being necessary to restoring or conserving comic books at a professional level.

The person who is the best at structural repair of comic books right now is Kenny Sanderson, bar none. His stain removal might be the best as well. He may be "self taught" also, but he also lives minutes away from the Indiana Historical Society, which has a state-of-the-art conservation lab and several paper scientists, with whom he collaborates on a regular basis. I have shown his work to a local paper conservator who is one of the best in the SF bay area and she was so impressed that she asked me for his contact information so that she could invite him to speak at an AIC event that she was co-hosting. If anyone has any doubt about Kenny being the best at structural repair, just ask anyone who has sent him a thrashed book and had it come back looking like new.

I am not sure why you feel the need to throw rocks at Kenny. He used to be your friend and he never did anything to you to deserve the way you treat him. Ever since he started working for Matt Nelson, you have acted like he is the devil incarnate. He's not. He's great at what he does and has become so in a very short time because he is a perfectionist, he always wants to add to his skill set, and he has great resources nearby (plus Matt Nelson) to bounce ideas off of. But most of all, he has put a tremendous amount of energy into pushing the envelope to bring cutting edge conservation techniques to the comic book field. He should be applauded for that, not treated like a hack simply because he didn't spend four years in college studying paper conservation.

Does Kenny still work for Matt or is he independent now?

He works for Matt at Classics Inc. Matt brought him into the business and taught him the ropes and Kenny has a strong sense of loyalty. Matt is also really good at fine detail recreation of art, so his fine detail work with Kenny's structural work has made for some amazing results on books that were previously beyond saving (brittle books, thrashed and heavily stained books, etc.). I have seen the work they have done on several books that were turned down by other professionals and the results were stunning. I had a book extensively restored by Matt several years ago and the work that Classics Inc. is turning out now is head and shoulders above what it used to be.

One of the things that I like the most about Kenny's attitude is that he is focused more on conserving books than in maxing out the grade with extensive color touch, though he and Matt will restore a book as far as the customer wants, obviously. But the leaf casting technique that Kenny has perfected results in such a massive time savings over manual piece fill that the net result is that less expensive books that were not worth the expense of conserving (reattaching covers, making brittle books readable again) can be saved now.

I'm pretty familiar with the background, but I see people referring to "sending books to Kenny," so I thought maybe he went out on his own.

No doubt the work is first rate. I've followed the leafcasting threads, etc. Amazing work.

Mike DeChellis should also get an honorable mention as rookie of the year. He has a way to go before he is top of the field, but the progress he has made has been outstanding and overall he appears to be turning out very competent work.

I am also impressed with Mike's work (given where he started and where he is now), although Mike will be the first to tell you that he has a long way to go to reach the level of Kenny's work. Mike's work looks good in scans but in hand he is still working out the kinks to make the book feel natural instead of stiff, and whatever he is doing to re-gloss covers is causing covers to look unnatural.

The best things that Mike has going for him are that he loves comic restoration and is dedicated to spending as much time as it takes to get better, he takes constructive criticism like a man without getting defensive, and he readily admits that he has a lot to learn.

The worst thing about Mike, if there is a worst thing, is that he gets so excited about new processes that he sometimes does them on books that he shouldn't when he has not perfected the processes yet. But yes, if there is a "rookie of the year" award for comic restoration, I think he is that.

Well FFB, we've never formally crossed paths over on the CGC forums but if nothing else, I can certainly appreciate a well thought out, well supported, and overall cogent post. Seems those are more a rarity online as of late ( lol Go see 90% of Comics General if clarification is needed).

I also appreciate some of the points you mention about Tracy Heft--that's pretty disturbing and really calls into question this preferential treatment towards a "formal" education. There's actually an entire field of study and work that would support this notion of "grass roots" education as well in the Adult Education field. Heck, Abraham Lincoln never went to college and yet, he was a famous lawyer, orator, and then... went on to do some other things. It's a point well worth noting that education does not always need to come packaged with a degree (says the guy who teaches at college). That's not to say there isn't room for a good, traditional education; I think we just need to be careful about being too limited in where we believe one can be educated and how they go about doing it.

Welcome Aboard!

We haven't crossed paths, but I've read a lot of your posts and I feel like I know you already. lol

Thanks for the kind words. I couldn't agree more with what you say. Results are what speak the loudest, not diplomas on a wall.

It's good to see you posting, Scott. Your opinions are greatly appreciated.

(comicdonna)

Thanks, Mike. And thanks for all of your efforts in doing the pressing test. It was a great first step in making progress in a debate that has had more heat than light in it for the past five years or so.

I don't know you (Scott) but +1. Thanks.

I believe you are referring to one book in particular which was probably my stiffest book I had done and most of that was due to the thickness of the leaf casted material and the fact that material replaced the whole spine and most of the edges. Since that book I have been working very hard to solve that issue among others. The very last book I did with the missing coupon was much less stiff. I am still trying to find a balance between flat and gloss color touch but rest assured I listen to the feedback I receive and am working on my issues diligently.

I do have a way to go to reach Kenny’s level as he and Matt have a big head start on me and it is even harder as they work as a team combining strengths and talent to get the optimum results.

Regardless, I am happy and humbled to accept the “rookie of the year award”.

+1, It is always good to see Scott get invloved as he puts in a real effort in his statements.