The 2011 CBCA Amateur Art Competition - View & Vote here!

Red Hook · **Posted:** Jun 03, 2011 1:53 PM

Also, we don't know if EITHER of those guys actually entered this piece.

That needs to be clarified too.

Mr. Zipper · **Joined:** Apr 25, 2007 2:21 AM **Posts:** 6017

Hi Guys...

Just catching up with this.

James Taylor submitted the Superman and Lois. He has done some freelance artwork, but that is not his full-time day job. I believe he meets the definition of amateur as we have laid it out.

The fact that it was colored by someone else may be an issue.

I will look further into it. To be continued.

Point Five · **Joined:** Sep 21, 2009 10:03 AM **Posts:** 918

Mr. Zipper wrote:

Hi Guys...

Just catching up with this.

James Taylor submitted the Superman and Lois. He has done some freelance artwork, but that is not his full-time day job. I believe he meets the definition of amateur as we have laid it out.

The fact that it was colored by someone else may be an issue.

I will look further into it. To be continued.

Tell him I love his duets with Carly Simon. :peace:

Red Hook · **Posted:** Jun 03, 2011 3:38 PM

Well, illustration is no longer my full time day job either, so can I submit next time?

I think you should think about separate categories next time. Have a semi-pro category. No way should a freelancer be competing with someone who has never made professional money. And that's not a knock against JT.

btw ... a separate issue is the fact that the art was professionally colored by someone else. That should disqualify this particular piece of art. If he wants to submit the pencils or his inked work that's something else.

Does he have a website?

Red Hook · **Posted:** Jun 03, 2011 3:42 PM

James doesn't come CLOSE to any reasonable definition of an amateur ... if this is the same guy ...

http://jtinks.com/?page_id=2

http://jtinks.com/?page_id=12

Again, nothing personal against JT ... but you're opening up a huge can of worms here, if you let this piece into the competition.

Point Five · **Joined:** Sep 21, 2009 10:03 AM **Posts:** 918

Red Hook wrote:

James doesn't come CLOSE to any reasonable definition of an amateur ... if this is the same guy ...

http://jtinks.com/?page_id=2

http://jtinks.com/?page_id=12

Again, nothing personal against JT ... but you're opening up a huge can of worms here, if you let this piece into the competition.

Here's an interview I found with "contest James" (the Superman piece in the contest is shown towards the bottom of the interview). Not sure the site you linked is for the same JT?

http://comicbookinterviews.com/2011/02/ ... es-taylor/

Red Hook · **Posted:** Jun 03, 2011 3:58 PM

Thanks, yes ... looks like there are a couple of JT's out there. I'm readin'.......

"I’ve done various projects for many publishers… including “The Captains Jolting Tales” (One Shot Press), “Lovely as a Lie” (Illustration Studios), “The Wraith” (Trinity Press), “Fireblast” (Ace Masters Comics), and promotional artwork and covers for more comics then I can remember. "

Nice Guy.

Professional.

I guess he also did the Green Lantern / Spectre page too.

oakman29 · **Joined:** Mar 17, 2009 4:42 PM **Posts:** 167

Point Five wrote:

Red Hook wrote:

I'd like to clarify if :

a) this actually was submitted by Dash Martin.
b) whether he did the pencils or just the coloring.

Sorry, I think this entry goes entirely against the spirit of the competition, and should be removed.

Just looked back at the eligibility rules, and they say

The spirit of the contest is to host a competition among those generally considered to be amateur illustrators. Anyone may enter with the exception of: individuals who regularly receive income from illustration, and/or individuals who are widely recognized as a professional illustrator, past or present.

so while I hate to see anyone go (bias disclaimer: I've got a piece in the contest myself), I'd respectfully agree. I assume both of the guys involved in this piece are DC regulars.

Steve, what sayest thou?

This is certainly against the rules,I would hate to see someone disqualified but this is a professional piece given the evidence shown.

oakman29 · **Joined:** Mar 17, 2009 4:42 PM **Posts:** 167

Adult J is also a James Taylor piece? shows on that interview link?

Red Hook · **Posted:** Jun 03, 2011 4:55 PM

Yes. I mentioned it above. The Green Lantern / Spectre tryout page.

James is good! Just too good and too experienced to be considered an "amateur" in the spirit of this contest.

What I would do is exclude his pieces from this contest ... and award him a special honor of some kind and give him a prize. I think the fault lies less with him than it does with the failure to clarify exactly the guidelines of what amateur/semi-pro/professional are.

And then next time, have three categories, with cash prizes going only to the true "amateur" category winners. You'd end up seeing a wider, more interesting range of work as a result.

It's not that complicated.

DeadOne · **Joined:** Sep 24, 2009 12:36 PM **Posts:** 510

oakman29 wrote:

Point Five wrote:

Red Hook wrote:

I'd like to clarify if :

a) this actually was submitted by Dash Martin.
b) whether he did the pencils or just the coloring.

Sorry, I think this entry goes entirely against the spirit of the competition, and should be removed.

Just looked back at the eligibility rules, and they say

The spirit of the contest is to host a competition among those generally considered to be amateur illustrators. Anyone may enter with the exception of: individuals who regularly receive income from illustration, and/or individuals who are widely recognized as a professional illustrator, past or present.

so while I hate to see anyone go (bias disclaimer: I've got a piece in the contest myself), I'd respectfully agree. I assume both of the guys involved in this piece are DC regulars.

Steve, what sayest thou?

This is certainly against the rules,I would hate to see someone disqualified but this is a professional piece given the evidence shown.

I agree

So... if both pieces are disqualified, does voting need to be started over?

Red Hook · **Posted:** Jun 03, 2011 5:00 PM

Hibou · **Joined:** Mar 20, 2011 12:24 PM **Posts:** 22

Although... since there is a scale and each is given a numerically assigned 'grade', how would that be affected?

Red Hook · **Posted:** Jun 03, 2011 5:37 PM

Mmmmm ... good point.

Mr. Zipper · **Joined:** Apr 25, 2007 2:21 AM **Posts:** 6017

After reading the interviews, I have to agree he probably does not meet the criteria for amateur. When I read his resume earlier, it appeared as if he was a graphic designer who did some freelance work. Now, it seems as if **some** is much more than I thought.

I will bear responsibility for this as I did not thoroughly vet the entries and there is some gray area in the criteria. Because of this, I am hesitant to simply yank his entries.

I'm debating whether to keep his entries in and make him ineligible for a cash prize (take the next 3 highest vote getters) or if he wins, simply give two grand prizes. This way, the net effect on other contestants is zero.

I'll discuss with the rest of the Board and report back.

oakman29 · **Joined:** Mar 17, 2009 4:42 PM **Posts:** 167

Hibou wrote:

Although... since there is a scale and each is given a numerically assigned 'grade', how would that be affected?

The people who voted for the prof. pieces could vote for someone else instead.

Mr. Zipper · **Joined:** Apr 25, 2007 2:21 AM **Posts:** 6017

Hibou wrote:

Although... since there is a scale and each is given a numerically assigned 'grade', how would that be affected?

It's not a forced ranking. Theoretically, you could give each entry a "10."

Red Hook · **Posted:** Jun 03, 2011 5:47 PM

I think you HAVE to toss the Superman and Lois piece, as the coloring/modeling of the piece was done by someone else and thus is not an entirely original work. The coloring and lighting on the figures have a LOT to do with the impressiveness of the image, and James simply didn't do that. It's a misrepresentation. He should have submitted his pencils or inks or whatever it was that was 100% his work. The piece was colored by a professional.

I also disagree with awarding multiple grand prizes in this instance. Besides, does CBCA have the extra cash to spend on that?

oakman29 · **Joined:** Mar 17, 2009 4:42 PM **Posts:** 167

Red Hook wrote:

I think you HAVE to toss the Superman and Lois piece, as the coloring/modeling of the piece was done by someone else and thus is not an entirely original work. The coloring and lighting on the figures have a LOT to do with the impressiveness of the image, and James simply didn't do that. It's a misrepresentation. He should have submitted his pencils or inks or whatever it was that was 100% his work. The piece was colored by a professional.

I also disagree with awarding multiple grand prizes in this instance. Besides, does CBCA have the extra cash to spend on that?

Agreed,it's not completely done by the artist alone.

Mr. Zipper · **Joined:** Apr 25, 2007 2:21 AM **Posts:** 6017

Superman & Lois has been removed from the ballot.

James sent me the original pen and ink, however, because people already voted on the color image, I cannot substitute one for the other at this juncture.

highradart · **Joined:** Mar 02, 2010 9:54 PM **Posts:** 851

Mr. Zipper wrote:

Superman & Lois has been removed from the ballot.

James sent me the original pen and ink, however, because people already voted on the color image, I cannot substitute one for the other at this juncture.

That's too bad but the rules are the rules. I think they were pretty clear but for some folks you may have to spell it out next time. I'm not knocking James because he does have some nice work. Besides, whether he's an amateur or not is somewhat mute now because the work wasn't 100% his. Talk about free advertisement - I had never even heard of him until this. :lol:

Mr. Zipper · **Joined:** Apr 25, 2007 2:21 AM **Posts:** 6017

highradart wrote:

Mr. Zipper wrote:

Superman & Lois has been removed from the ballot.

James sent me the original pen and ink, however, because people already voted on the color image, I cannot substitute one for the other at this juncture.

That's too bad but the rules are the rules. I think they were pretty clear but for some folks you may have to spell it out next time. I'm not knocking James because he does have some nice work. Besides, whether he's an amateur or not is somewhat mute now because the work wasn't 100% his. Talk about free advertisement - I had never even heard of him until this. :lol:

We included this clause in the rules -- (Aspiring artists who occasionally receive income for illustration are eligible to compete.) -- because there are some "amateurs" who do some commission work and others who are really amateurs but may have had a few pages published in some indie title, etc. So, we didn't want to exclude those types by strictly stating that someone who has ever been paid for artwork is disqualified. This is where the gray area comes into play.

James seems like a standup guy and I think this was simply a matter of misinterpretation.

In any case, we can assure all participants and voters that the results will be fair and in the spirit of the competition.

:peace:

Point Five · **Joined:** Sep 21, 2009 10:03 AM **Posts:** 918

Mr. Zipper wrote:

James seems like a standup guy and I think this was simply a matter of misinterpretation.

In any case, we can assure all participants and voters that the results will be fair and in the spirit of the competition.

:peace:

Yep, no worries. Thanks Steve. :righton:

Red Hook · **Posted:** Jun 03, 2011 9:01 PM

Ditto!

Would still love to see Jame's black and white version. Probably DAMN nice!

Mr. Zipper · **Joined:** Apr 25, 2007 2:21 AM **Posts:** 6017

B&W version

Attachment:

supe_lois bw.jpg [ 78.02 KiB | Viewed 2423 times ]

Red Hook · **Posted:** Jun 04, 2011 9:58 AM

Very nice ... and definitely a horse of a different color.

Or none-color as it may be.

It would be great if James could post some of his work in a special thread here. I think that kind of self-promotion should be encouraged on the boards.

highradart · **Joined:** Mar 02, 2010 9:54 PM **Posts:** 851

Nice work James.

macathro · **Posted:** Jun 04, 2011 2:21 PM

Voted! Good luck to all the contestants!

Hibou · **Joined:** Mar 20, 2011 12:24 PM **Posts:** 22

Red Hook wrote:

Very nice ... and definitely a horse of a different color.

Or none-color as it may be.

It would be great if James could post some of his work in a special thread here. I think that kind of self-promotion should be encouraged on the boards.

I agree!

oakman29 · **Joined:** Mar 17, 2009 4:42 PM **Posts:** 167

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