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 Post subject: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 22, 2009 3:54 PM 
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This link was sent to me today b/c I happen to be quoted.

Restoration: Does Comic Book Industry Have it Right?

It is an interesting, but brief, attempt at creating a discussion within the sports card community as to how that community should look upon restoration. The question is raised whether we, in the comic book community, have it right, i.e., our views, when it comes to restoration.

As many of you may know, the card community has been besieged in recent years with allegations of scandal and fraud involving restoration.

I should also note that the NOD is prominently featured and recognized. :applause:


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 22, 2009 4:27 PM 
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:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

Very interesting Mark, particularly in light of the fact I had many conversations this week with a longtime baseball card collector who told me PSA will not even grade a card which has had anything done to it. Is this fellow in the dark?


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 22, 2009 4:34 PM 
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That's cool but IMO, in general, comic folk have an unhealthy view of restoration. I realize that it is because so many have used it for unsavory purposes but still professional, as in done by those who are formally trained and recognized as professional, restoration should not be seen as "bad". We need more professionals but certain folks right now are assuring that they stay away for the most part now because they are using their "professional" designation to pull the wool over people's eyes. People can be easily fooled when the pot is big and there are people acting as professionals willing to tell them they are doing no harm.


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 22, 2009 5:05 PM 
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Very interesting Mark! Thanks for sharing!!! :applause:


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 23, 2009 12:29 AM 
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Aaron Stechesen wrote:
That's cool but IMO, in general, comic folk have an unhealthy view of restoration. I realize that it is because so many have used it for unsavory purposes but still professional, as in done by those who are formally trained and recognized as professional, restoration should not be seen as "bad". We need more professionals but certain folks right now are assuring that they stay away for the most part now because they are using their "professional" designation to pull the wool over people's eyes. People can be easily fooled when the pot is big and there are people acting as professionals willing to tell them they are doing no harm.


Removing the stigma of professional restoration in comics should have been an issue adopted and pursued by the NOD a long time ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 23, 2009 5:59 PM 
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Restoration on key Golden Age books will eventually be accepted, only because of the scarcity
of many of these gems. You could probably pick the top 5 GA books listed in O'st as the
first candidates elected to the Acceptable Restored Comics Hall of Fame


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 24, 2009 4:53 PM 
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Good job Mark :applause:


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 24, 2009 6:14 PM 
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Perhaps the NOD (in conjunction with well known restoration experts) should come
up with their own standard for describing and grading restored books...CGC can make up their own grading system... why not one for restoration ?
Then folks can submit their restored books and have the NOD grade them according to their "new" standard.


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 25, 2009 12:03 PM 
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Marnin Rosenberg wrote:
Very interesting Mark, particularly in light of the fact I had many conversations this week with a longtime baseball card collector who told me PSA will not even grade a card which has had anything done to it. Is this fellow in the dark?

Apparently not.

Here's a great article that describes techniques for spotting restoration, to include: trimming, cleaning, and color touch. These techniques can also be leveraged when examining comic books.

Can You Spot an Altered or Restored Baseball Card?
by Kevin Saucier

Sports card restoration has become a hot topic in the hobby. Can you spot evidence that shows the work of a card doctor?

As the collector begins to get more serious about sports cards, knowing how to recognize a card that has been tampered with, manipulated or altered becomes paramount. Making a significant financial investment only to have a card rejected by a third party authentication company happens quite frequently. Sadly, where there is money involved, there are shady characters to be found.

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/latest/can-you-spot-an-altered-or-restored-baseball-card.html


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 25, 2009 3:56 PM 
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Thanks Mitch, a very informative article indeed. This portion really caught my eye ...

About the writer:

Kevin Saucier has been collecting sports cards since childhood. He started submitting cards to 3rd party authenticators ten years ago. Not unlike most advanced collectors he purchased a valuable card only to find out that it was trimmed. Vowing to never let this happen again he tried to learn everything he could about card alteration techniques.

To understand 'card doctoring' he needed to become a card doctor, albeit an honest one. Once proficient, he started submitting his altered cards to various grading companies in an effort to test the limits. So far, none of them have been rejected. He now alters cards in every conceivable way in an effort to educate collectors at all levels about the variety of techniques that can sometimes fool even the most experienced collectors and professional graders. Many advanced collectors and hobby insiders now consider Kevin to be one the top experts in identifying altered cards. His knowledge and opinion is frequently used by collectors across the nation to validate cards suspected of being doctored or of questionable authenticity.


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 25, 2009 9:07 PM 
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Michael Naiman wrote:
Perhaps the NOD (in conjunction with well known restoration experts) should come
up with their own standard for describing and grading restored books...CGC can make up their own grading system... why not one for restoration ?
Then folks can submit their restored books and have the NOD grade them according to their "new" standard.


Several people have submitted ideas for a resto grading scale, but so far no traction


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 26, 2009 1:03 AM 
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Michael Naiman wrote:
Restoration on key Golden Age books will eventually be accepted, only because of the scarcity
of many of these gems. You could probably pick the top 5 GA books listed in O'st as the
first candidates elected to the Acceptable Restored Comics Hall of Fame


I think that conservation will become more accepted, not necessarily restoration.

ciorac wrote:
Michael Naiman wrote:
Perhaps the NOD (in conjunction with well known restoration experts) should come
up with their own standard for describing and grading restored books...CGC can make up their own grading system... why not one for restoration ?
Then folks can submit their restored books and have the NOD grade them according to their "new" standard.


Several people have submitted ideas for a resto grading scale, but so far no traction


Maybe we should focus on defining the difference between conservation and restoration?

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 26, 2009 8:19 AM 
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Is there a difference?


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 26, 2009 9:06 AM 
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Quote:
Maybe we should focus on defining the difference between conservation and restoration?

Mike


My hunch is that other professionals in the conservation field have fleshed out definitions and guidelines. It seems like a waste of time to reinvent the wheel. Let's look to other areas and see what they have developed and then add our own spin to it as it relates to comicbooks. I would look first to the fine art field, the Antiquarian Booksellers Association of America and the Library of Congress.


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 27, 2009 6:43 AM 
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Michael Naiman wrote:
Quote:
Maybe we should focus on defining the difference between conservation and restoration?

Mike


My hunch is that other professionals in the conservation field have fleshed out definitions and guidelines.


Hi everyone! Hi Michael!

As a professional in the conservation field, I think I've done my part. The problem seems to be getting to a point where definitions and guidelines are accepted and adhered to. Everyone has a "bias" that they want to introduce (i.e. pressing is/isn't restoration, restoration "adds" things, conservation "takes things away", etc, etc.)

Quote:
It seems like a waste of time to reinvent the wheel. Let's look to other areas and see what they have developed and then add our own spin to it as it relates to comicbooks. I would look first to the fine art field, the Antiquarian Booksellers Association of America and the Library of Congress.


So, don't reinvent the wheel. Might I suggest that we look at all the stuff I've been working on since 1994 and build from that? I'm sure most (if not all) of what I wrote for the CBM is available on the net - somewhere....

Tracey Heft
http://www.eclipsepaper.com


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 27, 2009 6:54 AM 
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What issues of CBM ?
I'll dig them out.


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 27, 2009 4:10 PM 
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:wave: Tracey!!


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 27, 2009 4:37 PM 
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Welcome to the NOD forum Tracey!


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 28, 2009 8:44 AM 
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Michael Naiman wrote:
What issues of CBM ?
I'll dig them out.


Michael

I have dates as:

April 94, Aug 94, Dec 94, Feb 94, Jan 94, Jan 98, July 94, June 94, June 97, Mar 94, Oct 96

Hope that helps.
Trace
http://www.eclipsepaper.com


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 28, 2009 8:57 AM 
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I am really pleased to have you contributing to the forum Tracey!


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: May 28, 2009 11:12 AM 
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I'll look for these issues....


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 Post subject: Re: Sports Card vs Comic Book Community - Restoration
PostPosted: Jun 04, 2009 12:49 AM 
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eclipsepaper wrote:
Michael Naiman wrote:
Quote:
Maybe we should focus on defining the difference between conservation and restoration?

Mike


My hunch is that other professionals in the conservation field have fleshed out definitions and guidelines.


Hi everyone! Hi Michael!

As a professional in the conservation field, I think I've done my part. The problem seems to be getting to a point where definitions and guidelines are accepted and adhered to. Everyone has a "bias" that they want to introduce (i.e. pressing is/isn't restoration, restoration "adds" things, conservation "takes things away", etc, etc.)

Quote:
It seems like a waste of time to reinvent the wheel. Let's look to other areas and see what they have developed and then add our own spin to it as it relates to comicbooks. I would look first to the fine art field, the Antiquarian Booksellers Association of America and the Library of Congress.


So, don't reinvent the wheel. Might I suggest that we look at all the stuff I've been working on since 1994 and build from that? I'm sure most (if not all) of what I wrote for the CBM is available on the net - somewhere....

Tracey Heft
http://www.eclipsepaper.com


We'd welcome working with you Tracey! :righton:


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