Any thoughts on this book and Met's disagreement with CGC on the PQ? "The whitest cream to OW pages we've ever seen". It's a nice book but it looks like a 5.5 to me and not a 6.0. So what are the chances of the PQ being upgraded if the book is resubmitted by a new owner?

Well, they do say they are "the whitest cream to off white pages they've ever seen", which just means the pages are still cream to off white to me.

They wouldn't be trying to suggest something, would they?

First, welcome Vince - it is a very pleasant surprise to see you here!

I have caught wind of the current Metropolis manipulation of the mindless masses and the media, so no surprise there.

The fact that they would hype the page quality in excess of CGC's standard, well no surprise there either (if that's what they REALLY believed, why wasn't it resubmitted already)?

One day we can only hope that folk wake up and recognize Stephen Fishler and Metropolis for exactly what they are (and for what I and some others know them to be).

Unfortunately, P.T. Barnum was right after all...

They could at least put in writing what they consider the PQ to be. I just detest that type of cheap hypemanship and flim flammery. Does anyone know if the story behind this book is true and if they own the book now or if the owner is just auctioning the book through Met. Also, is valid criticism of Met a cardinal sin on these boards? Oh and thanks for the welcome Steve. I'm still a bit player in this hobby but I continue to fight for what is right.

This is a lengthy post so be patient.

Vince, I have attempted several times to deal with Metro several times.

The first time I was in the market for a Marvel Mystery Comics #4. Frank and I went back and forth several times with emails

a) because I disagreed on the grade (no big surprise there...Metro only grades tight when everyone is watching ala Action #1)
b) because I felt the book was way overpriced (oops...it's still there a year later)

How did we end off? I sent off a final email asking if they would consider an offer based on a slightly reduced grade (4.5 as opposed to their 5.0). I never heard a reply again. Suffice to say I ended up buying this gorgeous copy instead.



Second time I attempted to buy an Action #14 they had on their site. I call and leave a message. No reply. I call a few days later and finally establish an email rapport as I am looking for large scans. I get an email back a few days later stating the book is no longer for sale.



I'm pizzed at this point. I fire back an email, Fishler and I have words back and forth. Basically the book was listed as restored and he was now having doubts to it being restored. He said he would send it off to CGC and get back to me when it returns and price it accordingly. Well a day later the book is still on their [public] site. I offer to buy it at full price. Fishler refuses and says he would let me know when it comes back from CGC. Book is still on their site, raw, same price, same grade.



My third experience was through a collecting bud.
Apparently he bought a pedigree copy of a pre Batman Detective from Metro in very high grade. After owning it for a while he decided to have it slabbed. CGC decided that this was not the pedigree copy. Phone call to Metro...guess what they say...and this is what my bud told me..."Oops...we sent you the wrong book. Your book went to another collector." Well last I heard they made it right...but wow...how does that happen?



My fourth dealing was also indirect. I won the Church copy of Whiz #13 from Ebay. I commented on the CGC forum how it was on Metro's site for $6000 and I had won it for way less. My thinking was that someone consigned the book to Metro, Metro couldn't sell it (can you say "Make An Offer"?) and so the consignor decided to sell it on Ebay. A few weeks later I have an NYPD detective calling me on the phone wanting the book back saying it was stolen from Metropolis. Metro had seen me flash it on the CGC boards and noticed it was their book. The only thing I can think of is that through my past dealings and experiences with Metro that Fishler must again "pulling" something...maybe the consignor was unhappy with the price and wanted the book back? Who knows. Maybe it was stolen...but after someone cries wolf so many times you stop believing them when it finally happens. Suffice to say they will get the book back when and if I first get re-imbursed for my losses.



This leads me to your question regarding the Action #1. You'll find the thread below interesting.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=466

I would have no trouble believing that Fishler owns the book and it is "not for sale" based on my past dealings of having books that were for sale being pulled out from under me.

I personally would not bid. In my limited experiences with Metro I have had nothing but bad experiences.

Hope that clears things up.

Oh I've had my run ins with them and one lengthy discussions with Fishler about a thread I started when they played one of their games with me. Part of me is wondering how true the back story on this book is and how probable the chance of manipulation of the auction is.

Metropolis claimed it would send a book to CGC to see if it is restored? Oh, that is so rich!



Kinda like all those first batch 'D' copies that were stolen from the Crippens and laundered through Metropolis?



My experience isn't limited ....20 years worth, unfortunately.

Thank you for those specific examples Roy, but I have resigned myself to the fact that many in this hobby just don't get it (or don't want to get it). They will label those such as us as having an "agenda", being "jealous", or possessing some other make-believe reason in order for them to rationalize away the situation.

I can only point to myself as an example of how hard it can be to finally face the bitter truth. But once I had an epiphany and broke away from the 'inventory intimidation' stranglehold of Metropolis, my enjoyment of the hobby has increased 100 times fold.

If our experiences aren't good enough for others to relate to, well then we've done our best to inform. The rest is up to them.

BTW Roy, I have 2 top professional contacts with the NYPD, so please get the investigator's name if they call back and then forward to me via PM (thnx).

STEVE

Does anyone know who owns the Action 1 that CC is auctioning, is it a private owner or does Met now own it? Is Met allowed to bid on the book?

I don't think Fishler would ever admit to owning it himself even if he did.
As for shilling the book I suppose that can happen in any auction.

Isn't it interesting how there are so many new members popping up in the CGC forum this weekend?

They're obviously shills for the owner of the book or Metropolis. It would be nice to know who owns the book and not just some hyped up , probably phony or embellished story about a long time owner. If you spend a half a million dollars on something, you're going to do your due dilligence before letting the money go. Look what happened to you with that one book.

Amazing isn't it? Spend 6 figures on a historical artifact with no authentication of it's past history.

Lots of new posters on the NOD Forum of late, as well.

Superman 4 and 6, when looked at as a pair (CGC 8.5, cr-ow), allegedly combined for $100,000 over at Heritage this week.

Uh-huh, verily.

Now a Supes 4 VF (CGC 8.0) is on CLink for $50,000.

It is simply amazing how some people swallow this hook, line, and sinker.

Hey, let's pay $24,000 for a piece of toast with an image of the Virgin Mary on it.

And yet it's been argued that these books on Heritage, along with the typical MMM (Metro Machiavellian Manipulation) surrounding the Action 1, is "good publicity for the hobby".

Uh-huh, verily.

I've been told that that book has been on clink for a while, priced at $15,000 until the Heritage sales and then the price went to 50.

I also do not beleive the two superman sales are real. Could I be wrong? sure but I have trouble buying it. Also, an auction sell does NOT establish the value of a book. It sets the high point one person was willing to pay, but if two bidders took it to that lovel, it could be actually worth a fraction of the price next time it sells because one of the bidders has been removed.

Price, grade and PQ?

Time payments too?

Sorry Roy, I lack this type of creativity:)

hello all...
I spoke at some length with mark haspel about the PQ of the action 1... their notation is very similar to a "slightly brittle" notation...99% of the pq could be white, but a little brittle in one spot, and that is how they notate...

same on this book...99% of the book is ow or better, but there is some darker areas on the first 2 folios...hence, the cr/ow notation, but the majority of the book is ow

Then CGC needs a better way of noting page quality, pure and simple.

that has been a discussion long and far...
if ow/white or cr/ow, etc...what % is what...and so forth and so on...
if brittle, then "how brittle" and where is it brittle (just on corners, at spine, edges, etc)... their PQ has long been a discussion issue/topic...

It was always my belief that with a split determination on PQ, what it meant for instance was that the OUTER EDGES of a page were cream, with a transition to OW in the interior of the page. Very common type of page deterioration.... pages are not always one color from outer edge to center.

Actually, the discussions you are referring to are probably way past this simple type of observation, but I do try to validate my position as a serious collector by posting in the Golden Age forum once in a while.

This is correct. The split designations mean that the paper quality changes from the outer edge to the center. So, CR/OW is cream on the perimeter of the page and OW toward the center. Many people mistakenly think these designations mean "in-between" CR and OW.

Here is an example of a deceiving page designation. The "light tan" is a very narrow strip along the top edge of the book. The rest of the paper is OW.

I had a GA Green Lantern #15 (I think that was it) Big Apple copy. Book was 9.6 structure but graded an 8.5 due to Light Tan To Off White pages. I was so disappointed I cracked the book and resubbed it two times.

I cracked it in front of Gator, Koko and Bedrock in Chicago and believe me the insides of the pages were near white and there was just a tiny (1-2 mm) strip of light tan at 2 edges. Book was super supple.

It's a shame that most people do not realize this and avoid these books.

I sold it on Comiclink for a premium as somebody bought the book and not the label.

The book was truly gorgeous inside and out.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/zipper68/blog/Superman11Blog.jpg[/img

Put that copy into Heritage...maybe someone will bid $50,000 for it!

So Metro calls the President a Socialist in a CGC GA thread( Action Comics #1 unrestored up up and away pg.29) and one would assume a strike would occur but so far nothing. does this mean different rules for different people?

Did those posts disappear?

No, go to three or 4 pages back from the last page.