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 Post subject: Forum Etiquette
PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 12:08 PM 
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Whats going on everybody. I would like to place a quick comment not directed at anybody, but directed to everybody who is a member of the NOD.

I see the same comments coming from members here and on the CGC boards. Alot of very hostile comments toward non-NOD supporters. This really must stop.. I understand that many of us are extremely passionate about the hobby, and many have firm stances about certain topics. But you are doing absolutely no good by becoming heated, agressive, or snide in your comments. And singleing out individuals is also not helping in the least. Someone doesnt agree, so what. How often do people disagree with you every day?

What I am saying is I love what the NOD stands for to me. And I would love to have more members join and add to the wealth of knowledge and awareness. But we really dont need all the hot-headed B.S. When you speak as a member you speak on behalf of this org. and many of you make comments that I do NOT agree with. You dont like pressing for instance. That is fine, but it is your OPINION. Opinion and FACT are not the same thing and you will probably not change the average collectors stance. So by attacking people because they do not agree is just ridiculous, people have the right to do as they like. When they do so with or without diclosure is their choice, use that knowledge for your decision making whether or not to deal with such individuals.

We are here for 2 great points IMO. Education and disclosure, as a member that is your job. To basically do what is right, to learn, and help for positive growth in this hobby. More flies with honey and all that. I realise some people may agree or disagree with what I say here, but we are at a great turning point for the NOD and would like to see the organazation I joined to keep moving in a positive direction. And hopefully we can all be part of something that is looked upon as a great contributor to the hobby we all love. Im all about the positive points here, please guys try and tone down the nasty comments. It is not very difficult to type things so they sound like more then some guy ranting and blowing off steam.

As members we all represent that logo.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 1:26 PM 
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Well said Pat. :righton:

There is a fine line between how one expresses their dissatisfaction with the current state of the hobby. If you notice I've kept my personal opinions to a minimum here on our public forum for just the reason that you state.

I'm not suggesting that anything negative cannot be said, just how it's presented.

By the way, don't forget to go into your profile page at Timezone: and edit to GMT - 5 hours.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 1:38 PM 
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:sorry: Sometimes the state of the hobby makes me frustrated. Then I have to walk away...read a campy DC silverage and I'm good with it again. I concur and agree with what you said too... :righton:


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 1:50 PM 
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Patrick Beam wrote:
Whats going on everybody. I would like to place a quick comment not directed at anybody, but directed to everybody who is a member of the NOD.

I see the same comments coming from members here and on the CGC boards. Alot of very hostile comments toward non-NOD supporters. This really must stop.. I understand that many of us are extremely passionate about the hobby, and many have firm stances about certain topics. But you are doing absolutely no good by becoming heated, agressive, or snide in your comments. And singleing out individuals is also not helping in the least. Someone doesnt agree, so what. How often do people disagree with you every day?

What I am saying is I love what the NOD stands for to me. And I would love to have more members join and add to the wealth of knowledge and awareness. But we really dont need all the hot-headed B.S. When you speak as a member you speak on behalf of this org. and many of you make comments that I do NOT agree with. You dont like pressing for instance. That is fine, but it is your OPINION. Opinion and FACT are not the same thing and you will probably not change the average collectors stance. So by attacking people because they do not agree is just ridiculous, people have the right to do as they like. When they do so with or without diclosure is their choice, use that knowledge for your decision making whether or not to deal with such individuals.

We are here for 2 great points IMO. Education and disclosure, as a member that is your job. To basically do what is right, to learn, and help for positive growth in this hobby. More flies with honey and all that. I realise some people may agree or disagree with what I say here, but we are at a great turning point for the NOD and would like to see the organazation I joined to keep moving in a positive direction. And hopefully we can all be part of something that is looked upon as a great contributor to the hobby we all love. Im all about the positive points here, please guys try and tone down the nasty comments. It is not very difficult to type things so they sound like more then some guy ranting and blowing off steam.

As members we all represent that logo.
Great post!

Hopefully, people won't dump quite so hard on the CGC boards as well. I like both places, and it is quite disturbing to show up here and read some of the foul posts bashing the place that a lot of my friends hang out at.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:22 PM 
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I almost always mention what my OPINION is on a matter and that it may or may not reflect other NOD members. Even if I lose my temper and name call I ALWAYS debate the points.

The one thing I would hope is that your comments placed here criticizing ... whoever ... are repeated there and directed at CGC forum members. It always takes two to tango and this organization has been labeled many bad (or illegal) things yet we are always the ones that have to hold our tongues.

Yes that is a sad fact of a "minority" but it doesn't make it right. Yes we all should be more civil, including you, but that is not always going to happen. IMO as long as it is sporadic our members are free to dispute any false claims of our organization. I would prefer they do it politely but I understand if they feel they must step from higher ground sometimes to protect themselves and our organization.

98% of the time I walk away from what goes on there because I realize that that forum represents such a tiny portion of the comic collecting community. They may be vocal, they may have political clout and deal with a large amount of the fiscal portion of the hobby but they ARE the minority. That makes me feel better that once away from the CGC forum I know their cynicism and vitriol are but a buzz of a fly on the opposite side of the comic community globe. Not only that they don't have the power to affect what I buy, read and enjoy.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:24 PM 
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Thanks to Marnin and Mike. That is kind of what I am getting at. I love being part of the org. but do not want to be in some comic book civil war(ha!) between members and non-members. Everyone has their views and should express them, but making things personal in a public forum is not necessary most of the time. While there have been certain situations and comments that have been hard not to address, others could have been ignored. It is much easier to handle things in private, with a cool head. And the outcome can be very surprising many times. I ahve had multiple discussions with people about comments and been satisfied with the outcome.

I would like to see the numbers here grow, but the actions of the few can spoil things for the many. And that is totally unfair. I would also like to state that I am very happy to see he amount of new blood on the forum here. Great to see all these new folks, and look forward to hearing what everyone has to say.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:28 PM 
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Isn't Marnin, correct me if I am wrong Marnin, banned from that forum though? So it makes it very easy for him not to burn bridges ;)


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:29 PM 
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Aaron Stechesen wrote:
Isn't Marnin, correct me if I am wrong Marnin, banned from that forum though? So it makes it very easy for him not to burn bridges ;)


No sir, I banned myself in '05.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:30 PM 
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Aaron Stechesen wrote:
I almost always mention what my OPINION is on a matter and that it may or may not reflect other NOD members. Even if I lose my temper and name call I ALWAYS debate the points.

The one thing I would hope is that your comments placed here criticizing ... whoever ... are repeated there and directed at CGC forum members. It always takes two to tango and this organization has been labeled many bad (or illegal) things yet we are always the ones that have to hold our tongues.

Yes that is a sad fact of a "minority" but it doesn't make it right. Yes we all should be more civil, including you, but that is not always going to happen. IMO as long as it is sporadic our members are free to dispute any false claims of our organization. I would prefer they do it politely but I understand if they feel they must step from higher ground sometimes to protect themselves and our organization.

98% of the time I walk away from what goes on there because I realize that that forum represents such a tiny portion of the comic collecting community. They may be vocal, they may have political clout and deal with a large amount of the fiscal portion of the hobby but they ARE the minority. That makes me feel better that once away from the CGC forum I know their cynicism and vitriol are but a buzz of a fly on the opposite side of the comic community globe. Not only that they don't have the power to affect what I buy, read and enjoy.


Read my last post. And if you have read anything that I have posted on the CGC forums in the NOD Q&A thread. I have already stated these things, and have also taken it upon myself to speak with many people privately about the exchanges in the forums.

And unfortunately cooler heads do not always prevail and have already lost a few friends over the last Q&A. But if they can not think for themselves and just bandwagon that is their decision.

These comments were not made towards anybody in particular BTW. But as a general thought for the community.

I also spoke to a certain somebody about the H-Wac logo. While I did not care for it, it was not worh a battle. Or trolling. The downside is it would have died off if not for the hanger-ons who just cant get off the guys nutz.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:32 PM 
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Marnin Rosenberg wrote:
Aaron Stechesen wrote:
Isn't Marnin, correct me if I am wrong Marnin, banned from that forum though? So it makes it very easy for him not to burn bridges ;)


No sir, I banned myself in '05.


And as stated has chosen how to speak and present himself in public forums. (to my knowledge). Marnin is IMO a force to be reckoned with, alot of knowledge in the man.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:34 PM 
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Marnin Rosenberg wrote:
Aaron Stechesen wrote:
Isn't Marnin, correct me if I am wrong Marnin, banned from that forum though? So it makes it very easy for him not to burn bridges ;)


No sir, I banned myself in '05.


Banned in 2007 myself, or was it earlier this year in 2008 :notsure:


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:35 PM 
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Patrick Beam wrote:
Marnin Rosenberg wrote:
Aaron Stechesen wrote:
Isn't Marnin, correct me if I am wrong Marnin, banned from that forum though? So it makes it very easy for him not to burn bridges ;)


No sir, I banned myself in '05.


And as stated has chosen how to speak and present himself in public forums. (to my knowledge). Marnin is IMO a force to be reckoned with, alot of knowledge in the man.


Thank you Pat. No doubt I was reckless back then, but I've learned the best way to avoid an ulcer is to stay away. :biggrin:


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:37 PM 
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Aaron Stechesen wrote:
I almost always mention what my OPINION is on a matter and that it may or may not reflect other NOD members. Even if I lose my temper and name call I ALWAYS debate the points.

The one thing I would hope is that your comments placed here criticizing ... whoever ... are repeated there and directed at CGC forum members. It always takes two to tango and this organization has been labeled many bad (or illegal) things yet we are always the ones that have to hold our tongues.

Yes that is a sad fact of a "minority" but it doesn't make it right. Yes we all should be more civil, including you, but that is not always going to happen. IMO as long as it is sporadic our members are free to dispute any false claims of our organization. I would prefer they do it politely but I understand if they feel they must step from higher ground sometimes to protect themselves and our organization.

98% of the time I walk away from what goes on there because I realize that that forum represents such a tiny portion of the comic collecting community. They may be vocal, they may have political clout and deal with a large amount of the fiscal portion of the hobby but they ARE the minority. That makes me feel better that once away from the CGC forum I know their cynicism and vitriol are but a buzz of a fly on the opposite side of the comic community globe. Not only that they don't have the power to affect what I buy, read and enjoy.
What is your user-id on the CGC boards?


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:38 PM 
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Marnin Rosenberg wrote:
Patrick Beam wrote:
Marnin Rosenberg wrote:
Aaron Stechesen wrote:
Isn't Marnin, correct me if I am wrong Marnin, banned from that forum though? So it makes it very easy for him not to burn bridges ;)


No sir, I banned myself in '05.


And as stated has chosen how to speak and present himself in public forums. (to my knowledge). Marnin is IMO a force to be reckoned with, alot of knowledge in the man.


Thank you Pat. No doubt I was reckless back then, but I've learned the best way to avoid an ulcer is to stay away. :biggrin:


I wouldn't call it reckless...having a strong opinion and backbone to the "players" is refreshing, and in my opinion ...required in the hobby.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:38 PM 
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Patrick Beam wrote:
Marnin is IMO a force to be reckoned with, alot of knowledge in the man.


boy, if I wasn't already married ........ ;))

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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:41 PM 
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Dr. Disclosure wrote:
Marnin Rosenberg wrote:
Patrick Beam wrote:
Marnin Rosenberg wrote:
Aaron Stechesen wrote:
Isn't Marnin, correct me if I am wrong Marnin, banned from that forum though? So it makes it very easy for him not to burn bridges ;)


No sir, I banned myself in '05.


And as stated has chosen how to speak and present himself in public forums. (to my knowledge). Marnin is IMO a force to be reckoned with, alot of knowledge in the man.


Thank you Pat. No doubt I was reckless back then, but I've learned the best way to avoid an ulcer is to stay away. :biggrin:


I wouldn't call it reckless...having a strong opinion and backbone to the "players" is refreshing, and in my opinion ...required in the hobby.


I have spoken to Marnin about this stuff. He holds alot of very interesting information. But going public only leads to BIG trouble. What is said in private is another manner. He does a good job of choosing his words in the NOD members only forum well though.

And you are also right Dr.D but at the same time. How it is presented and worded makes the difference between sounding intellegent and like a "loon" haha. Had to use that word. So Effin ridiculous.


Last edited by Patrick Beam on Nov 02, 2008 2:42 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:42 PM 
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showcase-4 wrote:
Patrick Beam wrote:
Marnin is IMO a force to be reckoned with, alot of knowledge in the man.


boy, if I wasn't already married ........ ;))



Ok... That is just downright creepy.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:44 PM 
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Patrick Beam wrote:
showcase-4 wrote:
Patrick Beam wrote:
Marnin is IMO a force to be reckoned with, alot of knowledge in the man.


boy, if I wasn't already married ........ ;))



Ok... That is just downright creepy.


Image


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:46 PM 
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And yet what is spoken here or on our members forum likely still becomes known to CGC forum members. So no matter where we speak here any vitriol is heard.

I don't condone it, I don't recommend it, but I understand it and this organization is still presented with the task of working around it. I mostly pay no more heed to what goes on on that forum because in the end I realize that is what we do, not say, that will ultimately be how we are weighed in the public eye.

Our failings in PR on the CGC forum can be overcome if we actually become what we believe we are. Right now NOD is far from what we want to be and far more effort is put into blathering on on that other forum instead of putting the effort into tidying our own house.

If this next comment sting or offends I am sorry but just what are you willing to do for this organization to help it achieve its goals? I posed a question to all members asking, no pleading for input and so far it is only those who are in the power positions that have responded.

I can do more. We all can, but we are more infatuated with CGC and its forums than anything else. Only what we do will matter in the end not what we say. Words are easy ... especially when we can hide behind a keyboard and the anonymity of the internet.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:47 PM 
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Patrick Beam wrote:
Dr. Disclosure wrote:
Marnin Rosenberg wrote:
Patrick Beam wrote:
Marnin Rosenberg wrote:
Aaron Stechesen wrote:
Isn't Marnin, correct me if I am wrong Marnin, banned from that forum though? So it makes it very easy for him not to burn bridges ;)


No sir, I banned myself in '05.


And as stated has chosen how to speak and present himself in public forums. (to my knowledge). Marnin is IMO a force to be reckoned with, alot of knowledge in the man.


Thank you Pat. No doubt I was reckless back then, but I've learned the best way to avoid an ulcer is to stay away. :biggrin:


I wouldn't call it reckless...having a strong opinion and backbone to the "players" is refreshing, and in my opinion ...required in the hobby.


I have spoken to Marnin about this stuff. He holds alot of very interesting information. But going public only leads to BIG trouble. What is said in private is another manner. He does a good job of choosing his words in the NOD members only forum well though.

And you are also right Dr.D but at the same time. How it is presented and worded makes the difference between sounding intellegent and like a "loon" haha. Had to use that word. So Effin ridiculous.


Very True... I don't like to come off sounding crazy and presentation is everything when making a point. :ooops:
I don't think going public causes big trouble when you have nothing "vested" in the hobby. I understand Marnin's stance and have chatted on occasion with him too and can fully respect his position. Since I only collect now and have deep knowledge of a lot of the vested comic community I don't mind speaking the truth. But I will mind my P & Q's when it comes to writing a knowledgeable, thought provoking post if required.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:51 PM 
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Patrick Beam wrote:
How it is presented and worded makes the difference between sounding intellegent and like a "loon" haha. Had to use that word. So Effin ridiculous.


:righton:


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:55 PM 
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comicdonna wrote:
What is your user-id on the CGC boards?


codfish on CGC and oxbladder on many other comic and other forums. I also go by the userid Tuna37 and TunaPod on last.fm music DB, untalkative on the CBC.ca user comments Dragon37 on bluebombers.com forum. Jennifer Nestler through PS3, xbox360 users. I have also used the alias sarah31 on some linux forums.

Probably some other along the way. Yes I have been an ass, angel, negative Nelly, and thousands of other things on all forums but in the end i rarely name call to prove or disprove a point and my thousands and thousands of posts in nearly 4+ years of posting on public forums will bare this claim out.

People call me thin skinned and that is fine but most of the time I take more shit than I have ever doled out. I am never afraid to stick my neck out there or apologize when I am wrong or an ass-burger.


Last edited by oxbladder on Nov 02, 2008 2:58 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 2:57 PM 
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Aaron. I feel that you are taking this personally, dont. I was not singleing out anyone. And I agree with you more often then not. I try and keep things at a level field. During the last NOD Q&A thread if you look at the posts I made I would say THAT is what I am doing for the NOD. Trying to present us for what we are, debunking myth, and trying to keep a cool head. It worked BTW. In the end people just ran out of ammo, and the great meltdown took place. That is where things were not pointed at the org, but finally shown to be against certain individuals.

What I see myself doing for the NOD is a very solid question. And I have spoken to Marnin at length about what I can do. I CAN only do so much that doesnt involve computer skill, or money. I dont have very much of either. But I do try and discuss the NOD whenever someone is willing to listen with an open mind. I try and do what I can for public relations. I enjoy discussing these things with people. Every show I set up has a NOD logo flyer on the front of my first long box, and I speak with a few people at every show. I have offered to contribute what I can to the OSPG advertisement (which I would love to see), and am always at conventions and often trying to meet up with other members.

On the CGC forums I have many friends. Many of them are at odds with individuals here. Unfortunately I do not know many of you well enough to defend actions. Thi puts me in a poor position, but I manage to smooth things out as to how the org. is viewed. Once again fact vs. myth. I am always willing to put my time out there to discuss the comics world with anyone, and have made some great friends here also.

In the end. I can contribute nothing other then time. If you would ever like to discuss this further feel free. I am just trying again to keep everything smooth.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 3:00 PM 
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Dr. Disclosure wrote:
Patrick Beam wrote:
Dr. Disclosure wrote:
Marnin Rosenberg wrote:
Patrick Beam wrote:
Marnin Rosenberg wrote:
Aaron Stechesen wrote:
Isn't Marnin, correct me if I am wrong Marnin, banned from that forum though? So it makes it very easy for him not to burn bridges ;)


No sir, I banned myself in '05.


And as stated has chosen how to speak and present himself in public forums. (to my knowledge). Marnin is IMO a force to be reckoned with, alot of knowledge in the man.


Thank you Pat. No doubt I was reckless back then, but I've learned the best way to avoid an ulcer is to stay away. :biggrin:


I wouldn't call it reckless...having a strong opinion and backbone to the "players" is refreshing, and in my opinion ...required in the hobby.


I have spoken to Marnin about this stuff. He holds alot of very interesting information. But going public only leads to BIG trouble. What is said in private is another manner. He does a good job of choosing his words in the NOD members only forum well though.

And you are also right Dr.D but at the same time. How it is presented and worded makes the difference between sounding intellegent and like a "loon" haha. Had to use that word. So Effin ridiculous.


Very True... I don't like to come off sounding crazy and presentation is everything when making a point. :ooops:
I don't think going public causes big trouble when you have nothing "vested" in the hobby. I understand Marnin's stance and have chatted on occasion with him too and can fully respect his position. Since I only collect now and have deep knowledge of a lot of the vested comic community I don't mind speaking the truth. But I will mind my P & Q's when it comes to writing a knowledgeable, thought provoking post if required.


Exactly when you are level headed and take the time to write things well people pay attention. When you fly off the handle, they think you are just ranting and wait for the first chance to knock you down, or add to the flame.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 3:02 PM 
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I am thinking of more than myself here. There are vocal members here that have put in the time and effort in furthering NOD and paid a heavy price for it whether they asked for it or not. I have been critical and mentioned the same thing you have spoken about to these people ... I have nearly quit NOD over it several times. In the end though I stayed because I believe in NOD and recognize that our "demons" have also been our hardest workers.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 3:05 PM 
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Aaron Stechesen wrote:
I am think of more than myself here. There are vocal members here that have put in the time and effort in furthering NOD and paid a heavy price for it whether they asked for it or not. I have been critical and mentioned the same thing you have spoken about to these people ... I have nearly quit NOD over it several times. In the end though I stayed because I believe in NOD and recognize that our "demons" have also been our hardest workers.


I agree with this also. We shoud really have a conversation about this stuff (privately). This really has nothing to do with 1 or 2 actions, or 1 or 2 individuals. It is a general statement about what we should be doing to help the NOD.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 3:05 PM 
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Aaron Stechesen wrote:
comicdonna wrote:
What is your user-id on the CGC boards?


codfish on CGC and oxbladder on many other comic and other forums. I also go by the userid Tuna37 and TunaPod on last.fm music DB, untalkative on the CBC.ca user comments Dragon37 on bluebombers.com forum. Jennifer Nestler through PS3, xbox360 users. I have also used the alias sarah31 on some linux forums.

Probably some other along the way. Yes I have been an ass, angel, negative Nelly, and thousands of other things on all forums but in the end i rarely name call to prove or disprove a point and my thousands and thousands of posts in nearly 4+ years of posting on public forums will bare this claim out.

People call me thin skinned and that is fine but most of the time I take more shit than I have ever doled out. I am never afraid to stick my neck out there or apologize when I am wrong or an ass-burger.
Ah! Didn't you win an ASM #129 9.4 in a grading contest 2 or 3 years ago?


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 3:09 PM 
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I won an ASM 9.4 but it was not a #129 ( it was somewhere between 140 something and 170/80) in a STL grading contest a few years back and did well in the ensuing ones too. Before that win I suck badly in the STL contests.

Never thought I stood a chance in any contest on CGC forums.


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 5:04 PM 
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Aaron Stechesen wrote:
I won an ASM 9.4 but it was not a #129 ( it was somewhere between 140 something and 170/80) in a STL grading contest a few years back and did well in the ensuing ones too. Before that win I suck badly in the STL contests.

Never thought I stood a chance in any contest on CGC forums.


Finished 2nd and 10th in the 2 years I tried. Not bad for grading from a scan. :dunno:


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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2008 8:40 PM 
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Joined: Apr 25, 2007 2:21 AM
Posts: 3733
I've noticed that the CGC Boards are becoming less and less interesting. Anyone else notice this? Have some of the better posters left? I can't remember the last interesting thread. Comics General has been useless for a while.

Mike


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