I don't know who he is but his posts on the CGC forum earlier in the thread titled... " Really...Really " tearing into Roy was perfection. Calling " a spade a spade " is so refreshing. This hobby really does need a reboot from the greedy buggers.
Being out of collecting for almost 2 years and coming back, I'm amazed to see the pile of sheep that buy into the greed just so they can be accepted on a jack ass message board.
Everything Boozad said was spot on!
As someone who pressed and trimmed comics with pretty blue impartial grading service blue labels I can safely say the entire motive was greed.... absolutely plain and simple. The amount of money to be made is way too good to pass up.
Anyways, good on Boozad for his stance.
I no longer press and trim comics but started collecting again for a different and more fun reason and it's good to see guys like Boozad speak his mind because he is hitting the bull's eye with each comment...
It's was fun reading the posts of people, and Roy, trying to justify Roy's inability to describe the details of a comic properly. It was done for the pure purpose of money, people!

I'm sorry but did you just say that you trimmed comics and received a blue label?

He did it to prove that CGC hadn't cleaned up their act from getting scammed by what-his-face. He revealed it all on the CGC forums.

S'what I been sayin' for years. People just don't like their bubble burst.

Looks like the whole thing got wiped.

There are a lot of good folks there and a tremendous amount of knowledge. Unfortunately the Roman Circus atmosphere seems to have overshadowed the positive. I frequent those boards less and less and I really don't miss the drama.

I'm sorry but did you just say that you trimmed comics and received a blue label?

Yeah, I actually still have them in my possession. I did a little expose' ( seems like ages ago now ) on my first attempt when I was angry with the whole hobby and the games that were being played. That was a Tomahawk issue and then I did 3 more within a year of that one. I'm not going to go into detail but I don't put a lot of merit in the grading and detection business.
I just enjoy collecting with my son at a simple, grass roots level. It's brought a more enjoyable aspect to the hobby.

That's too bad that the thread got wiped out. It was very entertaining to watch the squirming and dodging. That Boozad fellow was brilliant and the usual suspects kept pretty quiet through the whole thing. Not much honour among thieves.

Or caught with their pants down pissing into a strong head wind.

I never understood the rush to accept CGC as a self-proclaimed authority. I always thought that their claims of altruism rang hollow. But then, you know what P.T. Barnum said ... and buying a round or two of drinks at a convention goes a long way with some people.

There is no authority when it is self-assigned. In any other industry, to be an authority you need certification and training. Just because you do someone's taxes doesn't qualify you as an accountant. Just because you like comics and are willing to buy drinks and submit a resume to a company doesn't mean you have an extra skill set.
What a person needs in this hobby is the ambition to learn.

It's a shame that your expose' got a bit lost in the other stuff that went on in that thread. It should've received a lot more attention than it got.

Yeah, Gav is the master of the direct approach and he doesn't let himself get bulldozed or sidetracked.

It is called lack of knowledge/education. I have said it until I was blue in the face but lots of people hand-waved it away:

If people actually knew how a real QA/QC system worked they would not be very impressed with what exists in the comic (and card) industry.

Now I don't believe you could get exactly the same sort of system set up for collectibles but you could definitely have something better than CGC. Of course many have said "Well, we have a good basis we can just work on that and improve it." I would just say well what's the hold-up? If you know the system is far from imperfect then why do you tolerate it? Why do you still even assign a premium to the system? They say well it is pretty good at identifying restoration and it affords a certain level of "security" for the buyer. To that I say well if the buyer is worried about being scammed even with a grading then why the hell are they not getting more education on how to identify restoration on their own?

IMO if you are going to spend a huge amount of money online for a collectible without being able to check over the product yourself then you are just looking to be ripped off. Hell I think those folks are more primed to be scammed because they not only are willing to risk a huge amount of money sight unseen but they also "trust" in a system that is biased, flawed, self policed and for profit.

Anyway, to most people this is old news. I buy very little online any more, partially because I don't have the money, partly because good deals for what I want are few and far between, and partly because, aside from the possibility of being scammed, there are a whole set of other factors that could lead to one being disappointed with their purchase. I also have been avoiding the older back-issue market because it has largely become about labels, money and fame than about the books themselves. I have no problem with people wanting to make money or a name for themselves but the hobby has lost it way and it is the books that are paying the price not the people. I want no part of these games, and they are games, I guarantee you that we will look back on these days with disgust. By then it will be to late and very few books will survive in their "original" state.

/(selfrighteous) rant (mind you I don't consider it self righteous considering I have held these opinions for a very long time)

Well, knowing how such things have gone in the past there would have been lots of ranting and raving, promises would be made, etc and thus sated the masses will calm down happy and contented that they affected change and made the system better. Of course they have no proof it has and, likely, it hasn't. Keep in mind that Paul did his experiment AFTER CGC has promised they had clean up their act.

Why learn when you have CGC ? lol.

Thankfully, we have CGC to blame all of the problems in the hobby on.

Well, it takes two to tango and CGC isn't dancing alone (and never has been). If you look at the modern side of comic collecting there is more than CGC taking the hits

The crux of the matter remains that some people know 'the game', and they play that game to squeeze top dollar out of everything they touch. I finally had enough and had to speak my mind, I knew I wasn't going to win any popularity contests but the truth is the truth and I couldn't keep my thoughts to myself any longer.
There are a number of issues I've spoken out about on the CGC boards, and I'll continue to do so, I just have a knack of hitting the wrong nerves with some, if not most, of the people.

There are a lot of collectors out there that don't know about pressing, resto removal etc, and they're the ones who will be ultimately screwed. It's a damn shame that it happens in my eyes, but I've said my piece on the subject and I find it quite telling that the thread was removed. The inappropriate comments on there could have easily been cleaned up without blitzing the entire thread.

So all that information is lost and books will still be sold undisclosed, and I'm one of the monsters of the whole thing. I can live with that, but to delete all of that information was a sad, sad thing to do.

The sanitizing has been going on for a long time, my friend.

What do you mean, Mike? Are you saying that the CGC business model has not encouraged a lot of the opportunism rampant in the hobby?

Of course it has.

Well thanks, Garry. I know it sent a message but was quickly squashed because I was the big bad guy and pitch forks & torches were out for other reasons. That's water under the bridge.

Ox, you have a good memory.

Boozad, it is a shame that it disappeared because it was informative and that isn't acceptable over there but I applaud you for shedding light, I can only hope others were thinking the same thing but you at least you had the balls to voice it. Does nobody there appreciate how informative you were? Perhaps you could redeem yourself by starting a happy birthday thread or two..lol

It's essentially a great model to launder comics for anyone with a little ambition. The difference between RoboJo and a few people on those boards is that the latter will look you in the eye, smile and buy you a drink while twisting the knife.

lol I think this thread needs to be renamed!

I'm not a big slab collector but I think if we want to look at the real heart of the problem, it's the people (dealers and collectors) who are looking fleece others. If CGC closed its doors, another company would simply step in and fill the void. It's not much different from saying the internet is at fault for porn. Sure, it's provided a vehicle and platform exponential growth, but it didn't initiate it. Further, it has provided significantly positive things to society as well. Yes, CGC has provided a platform and vehicle for the unscrupulous to take advantage others and they have demonstrated they are not 100% foolproof. On the other hand, they DO provide a valuable service for cautious and/or uneducated collectors and have made positive contributions to the hobby as well, if nothing more than standardizing grading. I've met plenty from "the old school" who decry CGC but can't grade a pothole in the road as a defect let alone know the difference between a VG+ and a VF+

I agree that it's the unscrupulous people in the hobby who are the problem more than CGC. These unethical people find the many ways to take advantage of the "CGC system" and if CGC weren't there, these people would be finding the ways to take advantage of that circumstance too.

Like I said to Gav earlier though, not everyone on the CGC boards is a sheep or a sheister, I noted a few people who were sitting up and taking notice of what was said in the thread. Even if the threads are deleted, if it educates a few people then it was a worthwhile time.

I'm guessing the thread got the attention of at least 85% of the active users. It's a shame really, that some feel the need to be dishonest to sell a book. For those that are "against" or "anti" CGC I ask you, why do you think we would be better off without them? Are collectors able to detect restoration and/or manipulation better than CGC? If CGC didn't exist, manipulators would be able to expand their techniques to include counterfeit comics among other things. Noty to mention all the information their chatboard has provided for collectors and dealers. If CGC didn't exist there would be much more to complain about in this hobby.

That thread was destined to be pulled. If it was a shock to anyone, then shame on them. I really hadnt commented much because I knew it would get axed. I have said it before, and I will say it again. Just pay attention and learn who to deal with, and who not to deal with. There are still plenty of honest sellers, but the ones who arent seem to garner the most attention.

Thanx Gav for the info you provided in that thread,it was an eye opener for sure.I don't sell books so I really don't know all the ins and outs of deception that can happen with books,even though I've been collecting comics for 30+ years.So those threads are great learning tools for people like me,just goes to show even the ones that you think you can trust fall to the mighty dollar too.

Two things:

1) The grading isn't standardized. It has changed over time and as they grade older books. A true standard doesn't change. It is the same 24/7/365/etc.

2) There are plenty of people who cannot grade it doesn't matter what era you look at and how much they love or hate CGC.

No offense but this is exactly the type of response that I have seen hundreds and thousands of times. This is what they count on, expect and why CGC will continue to be "abused" (in all honesty I really don't think they care as long as there is money and work coming in). Sure they have done some good but they could be so much more. They could be better but there is just no reason to change since they know that their feet will never be held to the fire. No one really wants to rock the cart.

I don't and won't use CGC services. I don't have any plans to purchase graded books any more. I have no interest in the CGC games any more. CGC and their community couldn't care less too so my voice doesn't have a lot of power. Few in that game/community are willing to stand up so it will be business as usual for a very long time.

You're letting them off the hook Mike. It's not an "either or" situation. I think it's totally appropriate to push CGC to better their business model, to be more transparent and to have stuck by the accepted rules of the hobby, ie pedigree designation, publicizing grading criteria, etc. I've been doing it for years now. Have never said they should dry up and blow away. Don't oversimplify the debate please.

Collectors, like yourself, who have a ton of dough invested in CGC's product will defend the business model ... very understandably. You collect golden age books, a collecting area where you simply aren't going to find too many examples of those books in untouched highgrade. I think GA collectors are more willing to accept pressed, cleaned and restored books, because the supply simply isn't there. The bar is lower for you guys. You couldn't afford totally pristine untouched high grade golden age books.

But when silver age books get the treatment, that's a different story.

Sure, there has been a lot of info disseminated on the CGC boards. A lot more in the past than there is now. The really useful information flow has pretty much dried up. The serious collectors who were debating serious ethical issues have pretty much been chased out or left on their own in disgust. It's a shadow of what it once was.

At this point, there is as much if not more disinformation being spread around as there is really useful consumer oriented information. The CGC boards are there for one purpose ... to promote CGC and it's product. It's been very successful in doing that. As for really serving the good of the hobby overall ... I think it's a major fail these days.